You can’t honestly say that a country where citizens inform on each other and put each other in forced labor camps based on rumor is a society where trust is high.
> The Deutscherblick ("German Look") was a tense, habitual glance over the shoulder used by citizens in Nazi-era Germany before speaking about sensitive topics like food rations, Hitler jokes, or the war’s progress
Not just labor camps. People would regularly get beheaded for anti-regime remarks. Nazi justice was keen on capital punishment for relatively minor crimes.
Nazi Germany was full of dedicated informers who would even earn money or other privileges for denouncing someone. It had about as much trust between strangers as Iran under the Revolutionary Guards might have today.
Now define "members". It's both possible and common for an in-group to experience a high degree of trust and care, while those outside that group to... Not. From the point of view of the beneficiaries the social contract is working beautifully!
I found Singapore somewhat bracing in how honestly they acknowledge the two tiers (natives + wealthy foreigners vs poor "guest" workers) in their society. The same division functionally exists in many "western" countries, but is broadly ignored. (To be clear, I do not endorse this - and, in fact, think it appalling - but appreciate straightforwardness more than I do obfuscation by empty rhetoric.)
It's not like atrocities started with Nazis. Child prostitution, high unemployment, corruption, poverty, moral devastation, drug addiction, injustice, inequality ... all that existed before Nazis so many people ignored the warnings that came with the Nazi party since they were the only ones promising to act.
Something about this doesn’t sit right with me. I’m not a historian but something tells me not everyone else was a-ok with atrocities that existed before nazis.
Also, again I’m not a historian, but I believe their promise to act was also tied up in blaming others and hate.
“At least they got things done” is very often the seed around which a belief in fascism crystallizes.
They don’t deserve any recognition for what they promised or what they accomplished.
This is a thread about my definition of a high trust society.
So far the only argument in support of nazi germany being high trust is that they got shit done.
I don’t see how anyone could argue that imprisoning your own population in forced labor camps based on rumor is something that can happen in a high trust society.
There is no trust in such a society, only fear.
Arguing about this any more is making me feel sick.
My only claim was that things were far from perfect (profoundly broken) before Nazis came to power. They made many terrible things, but they also fixed some of the issues they promised to fix. That's why they were able to grab power.
You can read more about the Weimar Republic. If it weren't so fundamentally broken, Nazis would never come to power. Stating this is not Nazi apologia but a warning of what happens if governments and the ruling class ignore the will of their own people and actively work against it for a long time.
The original context of this thread is the validity of china’s data in this trust survey. Interjecting with positive example of nazi germany is not even correct. There’s no way anyone can argue in good faith that nazi germany was high trust.
The nazis don’t need you to come to their defense.
Nazism is basically ignoring the will of their own people and actively working against them.
Nazis were one of the worst regimes we had in Europe, but the German regime before them was also bad. Bad enough that many saw Nazis as a viable alternative. In desperate times, people make desperate choices.
This is more or less a historical consensus, which I pointed out. If we want to prevent a Nazi-like regime from coming to power again, we need to avoid mistakes made by the Weimar Republic. Unfortunately, I see a global trend of governments making the same mistakes again, and I fear it will end in the same way.
I don't think Nazi society was high-trust. But I also don't think Nazis destroyed trust, because it already eroded before them.
Western Europe is a low trust environment compared to the beacons in (cultural) East Asia, like Singapore. I can leave my kid with an iPad in her hand here without fear of it being nicked, like in London.
But business wise, western Europe is still relatively high trust. I suggest you read more about this.
> Western Europe is a low trust environment compared to the beacons in (cultural) East Asia, like Singapore. I can leave my kid with an iPad in her hand here without fear of it being nicked, like in London.
Funny that you take London as an example of Western Europe's low-trust environment, entirely ignoring the fact that the population of London can hardly be called Western European anymore. According to [1] in 2021 only 36,8% of the London population was White British, trend decreasing.
> But business wise, western Europe is still relatively high trust.
Maybe because the population actually working and doing business is still Western European? But that won't last long if current trends and policies continue.
> [...] the population of London can hardly be called Western European anymore. According to [1] in 2021 only 36,8% of the London population was White British, trend decreasing.
If you want to make that argument, you'd at least need to look at the proportion of the population that's Western European, not just British.
> If you want to make that argument, you'd at least need to look at the proportion of the population that's Western European, not just British.
The page I linked shows 53,8% white in 2021. Even if you count the majority of whites as West Europeans (and not East Europeans), they were under 50% in 2021, probably even less today.
If you have more accurate and up to date data, please share.
But that misses the point. I don't say London is not high-trust because of the non-Western population. I say London is not a western city anymore because of its population.
Singapore is also an island that is ~twice as wealthy as the UK per capita. I believe you in general but I'd love a lower-income country that could be true for.
High trust builds wealth - thus what you ask is a direct contradiction of the thesis. There is a lot of 'well' and details of what high trust means, but low trust doesn't allow for many wealth building investments - there is no possible way to make a better life (money is only a proxy) so few try and those that do are worse off.
Pure CS is not necessarily equivalent to pure maths. For the “science” bit of CS, you do need to do the equivalent of experiments (for more applied topics).
For example, a physics degree is expected to have experiments. You are not required, expected (and possibly do not want) to know the tools required to professionally build a bridge because you did courses on mechanics. But you might do an experiment on the structural integrity and properties of small structures.
Whether this is a good split is an entirely different question.
We can use AI these days to add another layer.
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